More gangs and guns


By DIA, Section News
Posted on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 04:26:05 AM EST

Gang and gun article. Two thoughts:

1) I don't believe the violence is just for violence's sake and that there isn't an active drug trade in Albany. Apparently Grondahl does.

2) At least they finally mention that there are more gangs in this city than just the oft mentioned North-South. I've been told that one of the reasons kids can't get to some of the programs where they could spend some time is not so much that they can't get on a bus, its that if they walk 3 blocks in the wrong direction they get jumped and/or shot.

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More gangs and guns | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 hidden)
Gun Violence (none / 0) (#1)
by one flew east on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 10:31:31 AM EST
Of course there is an active drug trade in Albany, just like there is in every city in the country.  However, that has nothing to do with why kids are shooting each other.  There is no drug turf war taking place in Albany, like some bloggers would like you to believe.  The reason is so simplistic that is hard for an ordinary person to understand.  

They shoot each other based purely on where they live.  Basically, if you live in one neighborhood and go into the other one, you get shot at.  And the kids mentality is very simple, if you shoot at me, I'm going to shoot at you.  That is why the police seldom get cooperation from "victims", because today's "victims" are tomorrows "suspects".  

A sad, continuous cycle.

OFE (none / 0) (#2)
by DIA on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 12:22:22 PM EST

Perhaps we aren't being clear here.  I've long said there are gangs in Albany.  The mayor and chief have said there were not.  I believe members of these gangs (which the mayor and chief say don't exist) deal drugs.  That is what I'm saying.  This article makes it seem like drugs aren't part of the equation.

Yes, these kids are idiots and will shoot each other over ridiculous reasons.    

However, I don't believe it is accurate to say that the gangs in albany are not involved in selling illegal drugs?  do you?   Before you answer you may want to take a look at what they are sentencing all those Jungle Junkies for.

 

DIA (none / 0) (#3)
by one flew east on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 04:13:49 AM EST
My post was in response to your first thought, not the Times Union article.  With that being said, yes, there is an active drug trade in Albany, some involving gangs and some not.  But that has nothing to do with the Times Union article and why kids are shooting each other.  

So no, I don't believe that drugs are part of the equation in the context of the article.  

I know you believe, from reading many of your prior posts that drugs are involved in many of these shootings.  However, the assumption that these kids are shooting each other over a drug war, is simply not true.

Sadly, it's all about where you live.  

I agree with one flew on this. It is mainly (none / 0) (#4)
by jackknight on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 08:56:53 AM EST
because of where they live.  They may deal drugs small time, but the big drug trade in Albany involves others.

you both (none / 0) (#5)
by DIA on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:50:06 PM EST
might want to reread my second point in the original post.  Perhaps it isn't clear but to me it reads as if i'm saying kids get shot for walking three blocks in the wrong direction.  It doesn't mention drugs.  

The reason i mention drugs is because they are part of the problem.  The illegal drug trade breeds violence.  Please see what they are sentencing the jungle junkies for.  It isn't violence but drugs.  

Gangs. Guns. Drugs.  those are the problems.  Since our leadership has been adamant that we don't have a gang problem, I want to make sure people don't also dismiss the drug trade as a source of the violence.  That is all.  Define the problem.  Then it is easier to solve.

Despite what OFE says, I've never said all violence in the city is drug related.  I have said that when someone gets gunned down, it is most likely due to gangs or drugs.  I stand by that claim.  And it is done with an illegal gun.

[ Parent ]

Return of the SDS or Grey Panthers? (none / 0) (#11)
by A Muse on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 04:38:06 PM EST
I respectfully differ with your opinion that Gangs, Guns, and Drugs are the problem.  Those are the symptom of the real problems.  No one wants to hear what the real problems are.  No politician wants to tell residents and voters what the real problems are.  The problems are somewhat more complex than the symptoms.  Gangs, guns, and drugs are like a runny nose, sore throat and cough.  The real problem is that you have a cold for which there is no cure.  Not believing there is any cure or that the drug store will have a magic remedy to buy with medications that fit the symptoms.  I could solve the problem, except nobody with decision making authority wants it solved.

The problems that Albany faces were not created overnight and will not go away without outside intervention or without this administration conveying dramatic changes in the thinking of residents and City of Albany employees.  The one asset Albany has that can help is the youth of our local universities. That is the only flicker of light.  The drag on anything happening is Jennings and almost anyone he has hired.  He looks and speaks like a thug, is a liar, a crook and a thief of taxpayer dollars.  He is a good politician.  A sociopath.  He truly believes he is helping. It is not his fault, but he is an obstructionist.  I got an earful of what he was like working at Albany High School.  If half of what was said is true, I cannot believe t he was elected.  It is time for him to retire gracefully like Bruno; his wife makes enough for them to move away.  

I wish I was Black and was as slick as J.Jackson because that is the language that is needed here, and as a WASP I'm not slick at all, but once the disease of poverty, meaningful employment, opportunity, morals, sex, drugs, black against black violence, responsibility to brothers and sisters, lack of real education in our schools, of parents and community and religion are addressed - wow this is one long run-on sentence - can change be made.  

I am from the generation that brought this country Woodstock, SDS, Black Panthers, Weather Underground, March on Washington, Peace Movement, National Strike in response to the Kent State murders, Sex, Drugs, and Rock and Roll.  It is this generation that is sitting on its fat collective asses and wallets and doing nothing about how today's children are raised.  You should all be ashamed.

Gangs, Guns and Drugs are just the symptoms.  Sorry about the poorly written response.  My secretary frowns on this waste of my time, as it will fall on deaf ears.  Bounty hunters are a viable option, as they would get the job done more effectively than the police.


[ Parent ]

DIA (none / 0) (#6)
by one flew east on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 12:18:46 AM EST
Just so I'm clear, I couldn't disagree with you more about your statement, "I have said that when someone gets gunned down, it is most likely due to gangs or drugs".  

I will stand by my claim, that it isn't.


I often wonder (none / 0) (#7)
by DIA on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 04:59:31 AM EST
how people can argue points that the facts directly contradict.  And every time I find it comes back to politics.  Apparently the Feds and the Facts agree with me on this one.


A member of the notorious Jungle Junkies street gang, whose ongoing war with a rival gang is behind much of the city's gun violence, has been sentenced to more than 11 years in federal prison on drug and conspiracy counts.

Lavar Houtman, 21, who uses various aliases including "God" and "Villain," told federal authorities he joined the Jungle Junkies at age 14 and spent much of his teenage years dealing drugs and engaging in gun battles, records show.

and


Federal authorities who led the crackdown on one of Albany's most entrenched street gangs are now said to be turning their attention to members of the South End's Original Gangsta Killers, who are viewed by many rival gangs as the city's most violent outfit, according to people familiar with the ongoing investigation.

The OGK, as they are known, have been suspected of committing many of the city's shootings dating back years, including homicides, and their members routinely flood courtrooms to intimidate witnesses who testify against them, law enforcement officials have said.

And here is an interesting bit.  The APD says the shooting was a robbery.  The feds say it was a gang shooting.  


Houtman's violent past included being critically wounded at age 18 when he and two other Jungle Junkies members were shot on a West Hill sidewalk in November 2004. At the time, city police labeled the incident a robbery and did not say whether it was gang-related.

But federal authorities cited the incident in their sprawling RICO case against the Jungle Junkies as one of dozens of shootings tied to gang activity.

So the feds have found that much of the city's violence is due to gangs wars.  Gangs who also are dealing drugs.  

Like I said, I'll stick by my position on this one.  

Dad-sad, rap-crap (none / 0) (#8)
by 1894 on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:58:37 AM EST
DIA, you left out my favorite part:

Andrew M. Purrott, Houtman's attorney, had asked U.S. District Court Judge Gary L. Sharpe to consider leniency for Houtman, in part, because of the young man's disjointed upbringing that included never knowing his biological father.

Houtman, who told federal authorities joining a street gang "seemed like the right thing to do," also received strong influences from rap music icons such as Snoop Doggy Dogg, Wu-Tang Clan and the former Capone-N-Noreaga, records show.

That's all his lawyer had to work with - an absent father and the rap music he listened to? Welcome to urban America.

DIA (none / 0) (#9)
by one flew east on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 07:56:01 AM EST
You're talking about the past and I'm talking about the present.  There has been dozens of shootings this year, very few involved gangs or drugs.  

Albany PR ... (none / 0) (#10)
by 1894 on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 09:27:31 AM EST
I was at a movie the other night, and one of the coming attractions showed a wild gun battle and car chase on the freeway. The cops were badly outgunned, and the bad guys were shooting up everything in sight. At the end of the clip, someone in the theater yelled out: JUST LIKE ALBANY.

Image is everything. Jerry is doing a great job of making sure Albany is known for all the wrong reasons ...

More gangs and guns | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 hidden)
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